Health Care

[Kounelaki]

the primary care of the uninsured is currently the ER

[black francis]

My mother in law had a brain aneurysm and was taken to an emergency room by ambulance where she got to wait six hours. How she survived that and the two strokes that followed is beyond me. It was late last year and now she's almost 100%.

That's the big problem in L.A. is the uninsured (legal and illegal) clogging up ERs to get treated for the flu and other mild ailments.

[withahip]

:eek:

Isn't this the case in France? Perhaps Cachan you'll find illegal uninsured immigrants getting health care primarily in ERs?

[Kounelaki]

Isn't this the case in France? Perhaps Cachan you'll find illegal uninsured immigrants getting health care primarily in ERs?

French citizens don't need to go to ER for primary health care. Why bring illegal immigrants into the equation?

[zabird]

That's the big problem in L.A. is the uninsured (legal and illegal) clogging up ERs to get treated for the flu and other mild ailments.

Sadly, I suspect that's the case all across the U.S.

I'm all for universal health care. Our current system is totally fucked.

A few examples:

* My brother Randy got laid off and can't afford health insurance for his family, even with the COBRA subsidy. His wife works part time for a small company that doesn't offer insurance.

* My brother Mark is a contract archaeologist for the state of Mississippi. So no health insurance. And even if he could afford to buy an individual policy -- which he can't -- he wouldn't qualify because of a variety of pre-existing conditions.

* Mark's girlfriend has MS and gets her medications (which are extremely expensive) via Medicaid. She and Mark can't get married because if they do, she would no longer qualify for Medicaid and the drug costs would bankrupt them within months.

Had one run-in with NHS in London in 1984. I wound up in the emergency room on a Sunday morning with a badly wrenched ankle. While I waited to see the doctor, the cops brought in a guy who had a bloody knife sticking out of his head When I finally saw the doc, he was on the rude side, but the nurses were nice and took care of wrapping my ankle, etc. I offered to pay, but they refused.

[black francis]

I used to think universal health care was the way to go. My brother's daughter has a rare, terminal illness which kills the child around the age of 10. There is a medication which slows the the degeneration and allows her a slightly better quality of life. The medication is quite expensive ($5000.00 a month) but insurance covers it. Would she be approved for the meds under universal health care? And who decides? A government agency? I don't know about that.

While I don't doubt health care in the US is in trouble has the government ever taken over something and made it better? If they can't take care of our soldiers properly then I'm doubtful about what would be in store for the rest of us.

[withahip]

French citizens don't need to go to ER for primary health care. Why bring illegal immigrants into the equation?

Neither do U.S. citizens. Using Medicare and medicaid, those Americans uninsured by private health care (50 million) receive some form of coverage by the gov already. Sadly, this system is bankrupting the states of NY, CA., and MASS.

Why bring in illegal immigrants into the equation? Because there are 12 million in the U.S. receiving health care, just like they do in France. The problem with the U.S. learning from the positive aspects of the French system is that it is not working from a clean slate.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington ... care_N.htm

http://humanrights.foreignpolicyblogs.c ... -mobilize/

For the past few years, Europe has gravitated towards nationalism and government policy initiatives geared against immigration and asylum seekers. In France, the situation is hardly promising for illegal immigrants currently working hotels, construction, restoration, and most any other low-wage jobs considered too menial for majority of the French. Faced with the precious nature of their situation, illegal immigrants are beginning to take a stand.

France refers to immigrants without proper legal status as sans-papiers, literally "without papers". An article in the June 2008 edition Le Monde Diplomatique (see Delocalises de l'interieur by Olivier Piot - subscription required) traces the working conditions and exploitation of working illegal immigrants in France. There are anywhere between 300,000 to 600,000 working illegal immigrants.

Five thousand sans-papiers took to the streets in protest in Paris on May 1st. France's high tax scheme provides comfortable benefits. Untold thousands pay into the system and yet are denied any rights to social welfare and health care. Exploitation is rampant as employers abuse the illegal status of the workers to their advantage.

In July of last year, Paris passed legislation requiring employers to declare any worker without proper papers or face a massive 15,000 Euro fine and up to five years in prison. Then in November, it released a list of 150 job functions that desperately require workers. However, solidarity organizations such as Droits devant! criticize the state for not developing a comprehensive regulation plan to expedite the necessary papers to fill those positions.

"We don't have much to lose," one worker without papers near Paris told Le Monde Diplomatique, "By going on strike or by participating in protests, we know what we risk. Each sans-papier who walks out of the shadow exposes himself and may be expulsed at any moment. But we have been living in fear everyday for years that we will be arrested and sent back to our countries. This is why we have decided to fight!"

[withahip]

Sadly, I suspect that's the case all across the U.S.

I'm all for universal health care. Our current system is totally fucked.

So you do not think a mandated system and stricter enforcement of antitrust laws would change things?

[Kounelaki]

Neither do U.S. citizens.

"the primary care of the uninsured is currently the ER"

[zabird]

So you do not think a mandated system and stricter enforcement of antitrust laws would change things?

Isn't mandatory health insurance part of the plan being bandied about in Congress? Although even then, some people would still fall through the cracks, just like they do now with that so-called mandatory auto insurance.

Not sure what you mean by enforcing antitrust laws. 'splain, please.

One thing I've noticed in watching programs on TV about health care in other countries vs. the U.S. model is that in other countries (at least the ones featured on these shows), insurance seems to be a not-for-profit kinda deal. Also, malpractice seems to be more regulated, with much lower caps on payouts and docs paying a lot less for malpractice insurance. So, perhaps, insurers should stick to the insurance business and not the money-making biz (check out how many of them have gotten the OK to become banks too -- there's apparently big bucks to be made in running those medical saver plans that many companies offer). That might do something toward reining in costs.

And another thing ... medicare should include dental care (including dentures), eyeglasses and hearing aids.

[withahip]

"the primary care of the uninsured is currently the ER"

The majority of Americans are insured. The uninsured often immediately go to the ER because preventive care isn't practiced.

No need to be pedantic Koun.

[withahip]

Isn't mandatory health insurance part of the plan being bandied about in Congress? Although even then, some people would still fall through the cracks, just like they do now with that so-called mandatory auto insurance.

Not sure what you mean by enforcing antitrust laws. 'splain, please.

Mandated HI was proposed by two senaors but was quickly killed.

As far as antitrust - his site probably explains it best

http://www.ftc.gov/bc/healthcare/antitrust/index.htm

And then there was this in 2004
http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/public/health_care/204694.htm

[Kounelaki]

No need to be pedantic Koun.

I was merely pointing out that you were arguing in circles, Uncle Hip. Sorry.

[withahip]

I was merely pointing out that you were arguing in circles, Uncle Hip. Sorry.

I am still try to figure this thing out.
I don't see how the entire Congress is going to make a cohesive plan that is going to be full of waste.

[black francis]

Doesn't the government run Indian health care? I heard they're still getting blankets with small pox.