Raw and Jaws-- how did they meet?

[JackT]

I'm curious how Raws and Jaws met, and if they had any experience w/internet dating sites or with volunteering to be swallowed up into the morass of the underground Pacific rim white slave trade.

Did Jaws judge Raws on superficial things like appearance, actions & statements, or did he/she endure the completely unpromising exterior in the arbitrary hope of a rewarding deeper self that does not manifest itself in any way externally?

Just wondering.

[Kounelaki]

[Dr Cheese]

This forum scares me.

[withahip]

Five-axis vices and jaws waste less raw material

http://www.engineeringtalk.com/news/rom/rom154.html

[black francis]

Have you ever left a forum totally, forever, b/c of a reaction you received from either a band member or a member of the forum?

Have you ever found out that a band member whom you admire a lot w/ your heart, intently stated something trashy or negative that turned you off so much that you even might have lost your love for them?

Have you ever had an incident w/ someone from a band or some other form of celebrity status that, turned you off so much & hurt you so much in the process that, you resigned it all, sold their stuff & remained not a fan of theirs anymore?

Have you ever found out maybe w/ a confidential e-mail from someone you do trust that, this person you admire has made remarks & negativities that turned you off?

Have you ever stopped liking/loving this person b/c of something negative that happened in the past? So much so that, you've even sold stuff, not gone to an event they were at or resigned from things?

Is it "ok" to feel hurt even if this person has never met you? Are these feelings "real" or stupid?

[JackT]

This thread is about Raws and Jaws. Keep it on topic, dickhead. Not everything is about you.

[black francis]

We were both young when I first saw you
I close my eyes
And the flashback starts
I'm standing there
On a balcony in summer air

See the lights
See the party, the ball gowns
I see you make your way through the crowd
And say hello, little did I know

That you were Jaws, you were throwing pebbles
And my daddy said stay away from Raws
And I was crying on the staircase
Begging you please don't go, and I said

Jaws take me somewhere we can be alone
I'll be waiting all there's left to do is run
You'll be the prince and I'll be the princess
It's a love story baby just say yes

So I sneak out to the garden to see you
We keep quiet 'cause we're dead if they knew
So close your eyes
Escape this town for a little while

'Cause you were Jaws, I was a scarlet letter
And my daddy said stay away from Raws
But you were everything to me
I was begging you please don't go and I said

Jaws take me somewhere we can be alone
I'll be waiting all there's left to do is run
You'll be the prince and I'll be the princess
It's a love story baby just say yes

Jaws save me, they try to tell me how to feel
This love is difficult, but it's real
Don't be afraid, we'll make it out of this mess
It's a love story baby just say yes
Oh oh

I got tired of waiting
Wondering if you were ever coming around
My faith in you is fading
When I met you on the outskirts of town, and I said

Jaws save me I've been feeling so alone
I keep waiting for you but you never come
Is this in my head? I don't know what to think
He knelt to the ground and pulled out a ring

And said, marry me Raws
You'll never have to be alone
I love you and that's all I really know
I talked to your dad, go pick out a white dress
It's a love story baby just say yes

Oh, oh, oh, oh
'Cause we were both young when I first saw you

[JackT]

What makes that song even sadder is the knowledge that they know that shell-softening is inevitable. Those two kids need to squeeze this life for all it's worth.

[black francis]

What makes that song even sadder is the knowledge that they know that shell-softening is inevitable. Those two kids need to squeeze this life for all it's worth.

Raws and Jaws have defied their parents to find love and they will defy shell softening as well.

[black francis]

The Red-Eared Slider (Trachemys scripta elegans), known commonly in the UK as the Red-Eared Terrapin, is a semi-aquatic turtle belonging to the family Emydidae. It is a native of the southern United States, but has become common in various areas of the world due to the pet trade. They are very popular pets in the United States, the Netherlands, Canada, Japan, and the United Kingdom.

Native to: Originally from the Mississippi River to Gulf of Mexico. However they are now found world wide due to people releasing them into the wild.

Size: Males can reach 7 - 9 inches on average where females reach 7 - 12 inches. Contrary to popular myth, red ear sliders do not stay small if kept in a small enclosure.

Life span: In the wild red ear sliders can live up to 20 years and there have been reports of them living up to 40 years in captivity.

General appearance: As hatchlings they are bright green with yellow and red stripes extending from the eye to the ear. As they grow however the color will change to a dark green and their colors will fade. Males will have longer front claws and thicker tail where as females have thinner tails and are larger in size.

Housing requirements:

Enclosure: Red ear sliders need a lot of room. The general rule of thumb is 1 inch of shell per 10 gallons of water (so a 4 inch turtle should have 40 gallons tank). There are a variety of enclosures that have been used successfully. The most common is either glass or acrylic aquariums. Preformed ponds, stock tanks, and storage containers may also be used for an enclosure. Whatever is used, care should be taken that is escape proof for the red ear slider and predator proof to prevent other animals getting in the enclosure. A screen top on top of the enclosure is a good way to achieve this. Screen mesh should have ½ inch grids. If the grids are any smaller it may obstruct any UVB rays that are being directed in.

Temperature: Water temperature should be 78° - 80° F for hatchling red ear sliders while adults prefer it at 72° - 76°. Day time air temperature should be 75° - 80° F with a basking area air temperature should be 85° - 90°. Either two thermometers on either side of the enclosure or infra-red thermometer may be used to get an accurate temperature.

Heat/Light: UV lighting providing UVA and UVB for proper calcium metabolism and skeletal development of the red ear slider. This may be achieved by using a mercury vapor bulb or a fluorescent bulb with at least 5% - 10% output of UVB. Sunlight is the best source of UVB. Incandescent lights and ceramic emitters may be used to provide basking spots. Water temperature may be heated with a submersible water heater at 3 - 5 watts per gallon.

Substrate: No substrate is needed for red ear slider enclosures. Many people feel it is easier to clean and improves filter performance. If you would like a more natural feel for our slider you can use river rocks (large, smooth rocks) or sand. Gravel should NOT be used because can be ingested by the red ear slider and cause blockage and prolapsed rectum.

Environment: Filtration is a must with red ear sliders. The general rule is you want a filter three times more powerful than what would generally be used for an aquarium for fish. A basking area should be provided so the slider can climb out and fully dry their shell. This can be achieved by bricks, cinder block, cork bark, driftwood, grapevine, fixed PVC, as well as a wide array of commercially made basking platforms. If you have a female slider, you may also want to provide an area with moist soil for them to dig and lay eggs. If there is nowhere is available to dig, females may retain the eggs which can cause health problems. Hiding areas are used by many turtles and should be provided in the enclosure. Please keep in mind that these should be stable so they do not trap the slider and cause it to drown.

Diet: Red ear sliders are omnivorous (eat both plant material and animal protein). Hatchlings require their diet to be about 50% protein while adults should have only 10% - 25%. When feeding your slider a good rule to follow is to only offer as much food as the size of their head. Even though they may beg this is usually enough food and too much food can result in shell pyramiding, liver failure, or kidney failure. Commercially made aquatic turtle pellets, trout chow, or rehydrated high quality cat food are available but should not be fed exclusively. Live foods such as apple snails, pond snails, guppies, rosy reds, crickets, earthworms, and silkworms can be offered on a regular basis. Brine shrimp, ghost shrimp, blood worms, Krill, wax worms, gammerus, may be offered as treats as well. Goldfish should be avoided because that they contain thiaminase, an enzyme that destroys vitamin B1. Red ear sliders should also have plant matter in their diet as well. Dandelion greens, green and red leaf lettuce, turnip greens should be offered regularly. A small amount of carrots, endive, escarole, chicory greens, kale, green beans, romaine lettuce, squash, zucchini, sweet potato, and pumpkin may also be used as a treat. Many aquatic plants such as Amazon swords, anacharis, Duckweed, water fern, water hyacinth, frog bit, hornwort, water nasturtium, pond weed, water lettuce, water lily, water milfoil, and water starwort can be offered as well. Vitamins should be offered every third feeding. Cuttle bones can also be offered as a natural supply of calcium.

Maintenance: Water should be clear, however regular water testing and water changes should be performed on a regular basis. Many people find that feeding the red ear slider in a separate container helps maintain the water quality. Waste water should not be emptied into a sink that is used for food preparation or personal hygiene. Hands and any other part of your body that comes in contact with the water should be washed thoroughly with anti-bacterial soap when finished handling the slider or any of it's cage accessories.

Behavior
The female Red-eared Slider grows to be 25-30 cm (10-12 in) in length and males 20-25 cm (8-10 in). They are almost entirely aquatic, but do leave the water to bask in the sun and lay eggs. These reptiles are deceptively fast and are also excellent swimmers. They hunt for prey and will attempt to capture it when the opportunity presents itself. They are very aware of predators and people and generally shy away from them. In fact, the Red-eared Slider frantically slides off rocks and logs when approached - hence the name.

Contrary to popular misconception, Red-eared Sliders do not have saliva, but--like most aquatic turtles--they have fixed tongues. This is the reason they must eat their food in water. [1] [2] [3]


[edit] Diet
Red-eared Sliders are omnivores and eat a variety of animal and plant materials in the wild including, but not limited to fish, crayfish, carrion, tadpoles, snails, crickets, wax worms, aquatic insects and numerous aquatic plant species. The captive diet for pet Red-eared Slider should primarily consist of high-quality turtle food. They should never be fed commercial dog food, cat food and fish chow. Commercial turtle foods should be used instead, as they are low in fat and high in protein. [4] Calcium (for shell health) can be supplemented by adding pieces of cuttlebone to the diet. A nutritious food readily accepted by young turtles is baby clams soaked in krill oil covered with powdered coral calcium. Younger turtles tend to be more carnivorous (eat more animal protein) than adults do. As they grow larger and older, they become increasingly herbivorous. Live foods are particularly enjoyed and add to the quality of life of captive turtles. Providing a wide variety of foods is the key to success with captive Red-eared Slider. [5]


[edit] Hibernation
The term for hibernation in reptiles is brumation. Brumation can occur in varying degrees. Red-eared Slider brumate over the winter at the bottom of ponds or shallow lakes. They become inactive, generally, in October, when temperatures fall below 50°F (10°C). Individuals usually brumate underwater. They have also been found under banks and hollow stumps and rocks. Their brumation does not go uninterrupted. In warmer winter climates they can become active and come to the surface for basking. When the temperature begins to drop again, however, they will quickly return to a brumation state. Sliders will generally come up for food in early March to as late as the end of April. Red Eared Sliders do not usually hibernate in captivity if their water temperature is kept high enough.


[edit] Reproduction

Hatching turtle with its egg-tooth.Courtship and mating activities for Red-eared Sliders usually occur between March and July, and take place underwater. The male swims toward the female and flutters or vibrates the back side of his long claws on and around her face and head. The female will swim toward the male and, if she is receptive, will sink to the bottom for mating. If the female is not receptive, she may become aggressive towards the male. The courtship can take up to forty-five minutes, but the mating itself usually takes only ten to fifteen minutes.[citation needed]

Sometimes a male will appear to be courting another male. This is actually a sign of dominance and the males may begin to fight. Juveniles may display the courtship dance, but until the turtles are five years of age they are not mature and unable to mate.[citation needed]

After mating, the female will spend extra time basking in order to keep her eggs warm. She may also have a change of diet, eating only certain foods or not eating as much as she normally would. Ovulation begins in May and egg-laying occurs in May through early July. A female might lay from two to thirty eggs, with larger females have the largest clutches. One female can lay up to five clutches in the same year and clutches are usually spaced twelve to thirty-six days apart.

Eggs will hatch sixty to ninety days after they have been laid. Late season hatchlings may spend the winter in the nest and emerge when the weather warms in the spring. New hatchlings will cut open their egg with an egg tooth, which falls out about an hour after hatching. This tooth never grows back. Hatchlings may stay inside their eggshells after hatching for the first day or two. When a hatchling decides to leave the shell, it will have a small sac protruding from its bottom plastron. Just prior to hatching the egg contains 50% Turtle and 50% egg sac. The yolk sac is vital and provides nourishment while visible and several days after it has been absorbed into the turtle's belly. Damage or motion enough to allow air into the turtle's body results in death. This is the main reason for marking the top of Turtle eggs if their relocation for any reason is required. An egg that has been rotated upside down will eventually terminate the embryo growth by the sac smothering the embryo. If it manages to reach term, the turtle will try to flip over with the yolk sac which will no doubt allow air into the body cavity and death follows as noted. The other killer is water into the body cavity before the sac is absorbed completely and the opening has almost completely healed. It takes 21 days between the egg opening until water entry. The sac will never fall off by itself, it must be absorbed. The split may be noticeable in the hatchling's plastron on turtles found in the field indicating the age of the turtle to be about 3 weeks old. As noted the split must heal on its own before allowing the turtle to swim. This does not preclude the need for moisture throughout the first 3 weeks of life out of the egg. I place my Hatchlings on moist paper towels. As a matter of fact the eggs are on these towels from the day they are laid (I dig them up an hour after laying)and covered with toweling until they hatch and can swim. The Turtle can also suck the water it needs from the toweling. Red Ear Slider eggs matriculate in South Florida in 91 days while in New York City the egg takes 102 days. Turtles relocated exhibited this effect with constancy.[citation needed]

The Turtle egg is fertilized as it is being laid and buried in the sand. The time between mating and egg laying can be days or weeks. This concept also supports the fact that a Turtle mating can provide for viable eggs two seasons in a row.


[edit] As pets

Trachemys scripta elegansThe Red-eared Slider is commonly kept as a pet and is often sold cheaply. As with other turtles, tortoises and box turtles, individuals that survive their first year or two can be expected to live almost as long as their owners. Individuals of this species have lived at least 35 years in captivity.

Red-eared sliders can be quite aggressive -- especially when food is involved. If being kept as a pet, care must be taken to prevent injury or even death of its smaller tankmates. If a group of hatchlings are kept together, the oldest and most aggressive will soon outgrow their younger and smaller companions.


[edit] United States federal regulations on commercial distribution
A 1975 U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) regulation bans the sale (for general commercial and public use) of turtle eggs and turtles with a carapace length of less than 4 inches (100 mm). This regulation comes under the Public Health Service Act and is enforced by the FDA in cooperation with State and local health jurisdictions. The ban has been effective in the U.S. since 1975 because of the public health impact of turtle-associated Salmonella. Turtles and turtle eggs found to be offered for sale in violation of this provision are subject to destruction in accordance with FDA procedures. A fine of up to $1,000 and/or imprisonment for up to one year is the penalty for those who refuse to comply with a valid final demand for destruction of such turtles or their eggs.[7]

Many stores and flea markets still sell small turtles due to an exception in the FDA regulation which allows turtles under 4 inches (100 mm) to be sold "for bona fide scientific, educational, or exhibitional purposes, other than use as pets."[8]

There is no established federal law banning the possession of small turtles or their eggs. The above FDA regulation applies only to the commercial or public distribution as above. In other words, it is illegal to sell small turtles (as pets), but they are legal (on the federal level) to own. The regulation was designed to protect humans from Salmonella outbreaks due to the mass distribution of young turtles as pets. There is no part of the provision expressly for the purposes of protecting turtles from humans, except to ensure that their destruction is "in a humane manner."

As with many other animals and inanimate objects, the risk of Salmonella exposure can be reduced by following basic rules of cleanliness. Small children must be taught not to put the turtle in their mouth and to wash their hands immediately after they finish "playing" with the turtle, feeding it, or changing the water. A turtle bowl should never be washed with the family dishes!


[edit] U.S. State Law
Some states have other laws and regulations regarding possession of Red-eared Slider because they can be an invasive species where they are not native and have been introduced through the pet trade. As of July 1, 2007, it is illegal in Florida to sell any wild type Red-eared Slider, as they interbreed with the local yellow-bellied slider population -- Trachemys scripta scripta is another subspecies of the same species, and intergrades typically combine the markings of the two subspecies. However, unusual color varieties such as albino and pastel Red-eared Slider, which are derived from captive breeding, are still allowed for sale. [9]


[edit] Australia
The Red-eared Slider turtle is banned in Australia because of the threat the species poses to wildlife. Anyone who keeps or breeds Red-eared Slider turtles could face fines of more than $100,000 or five years' jail.


[edit] Ideal conditions in captivity
High water quality.
UVB light. "Full spectrum" and reptile UVB fluorescent lights are not equal substitutes for direct unfiltered sunlight. Even UVB heat lamps or mercury vapor lights are not proven to be equal substitutes for direct unfiltered sunlight. However, these two latter bulbs produce higher levels of UVB. UVB from sunlight and artificial UVB light is filtered out if glass or plastic is between the bulb and the basking area.
Hibernation or brumation is not possible indoors at room temperature. Twelve hours of light per day prevents hibernation.
Mature female turtles can lay infertile eggs without mating and may continue this for an entire first season even with mature males in residence.
Dystocia (egg binding) is potentially fatal and is the inability to lay eggs due to tank confinement with insufficient or undesirable land areas, shell deformities or nutritional imbalances.
Groups of turtles should have sex ratios of at least 2 females per male to avoid mating pressure and injuries from over mating. [5]
Red-eared Sliders should be kept in large tanks. A 10-20 gallon tank is needed for small Red Eared Sliders, and much larger for adult turtles. They can also be kept in outdoor ponds or other larger enclosures, such as a 40-75 gallon terrariums.

[edit] Environment

A Red-eared Slider in an outdoor pond with goldfish and koi.The Red-eared Slider enjoy large areas where they are free to swim. These turtles also require a basking area, where they can leave the water and enjoy the light you provide for them. UVB heat lamps are usually the best option and most common among those taking proper care of their turtles. However, UVB heat lamps have not been proven to have the same quality as direct, unfiltered UV rays from the sun. Therefore, it is recommended that on days with more sun you take your turtles out with you to enjoy it, even if this is only possible in the Spring/Summer. Note: Although not nearly ideal, Red-eared Slider have been known to remain healthy even with a regular light bulb or halogen light as their source of basking heat

For the basking area, the best choice is an actual dirt or sand area, if this is at all possible. This is especially suggested if you have different sex turtles. The real land area will allow for an impregnated female to lay her eggs, or at least attempt to. Since these turtles like to climb, flat rocks also make good basking areas as well as provide areas for entertainment.

Plant life, either fake or real also increases Red-eared Slider quality of life, mimicking their natural environment. The real plants can also serve as a source of food.

Turtles highly enjoy fresh, clean and clear water. A good filter can help accomplish this. Also, once every two weeks about 25% of the water should be removed and replaced with new water, and the filter cleaned. It is also strongly recommended that if you have a large enough tank, as well as the proper pH and water temperature, to keep fast freshwater fish. In a large enough tank with areas for fish to hide, it is very unlikely that they will be eaten. Meanwhile, the majority of freshwater fish will feed on the leftovers of what you feed your turtles, as well as the turtle's feces, both which allow for a much cleaner environment for both the turtles and the fish.

Certain species of fresh-water fish are also useful in consuming mosquito larvae.


[edit] Name
Red Eared Sliders get their name from the distinctive red mark around their ear. The Slider part of their name comes from their ability to slide off rocks and logs and into the water very quickly. This species was previously known as Troost's Turtle in honor of an American herpetologist; Trachemys scripta troostii is now the scientific name for another subspecies, the Cumberland Turtle.

[In The Margins]

Did anyone read that?

[withahip]

Did anyone read that?

Do you really have to ask?

[In The Margins]

No. ..............

[black francis]

I didn't even read it.

[black francis]

Basically it says Raws and Jaws will live.