New U2 album media circus / Bunnymen dropped

[Scouser]

Where did it all go right for U2 (or wrong depending on your point of view)?

Is it as simple as "the Bunnymen never wanted it"?

As the press line up to praise U2, Mac is playing a gig in a pizza joint (good though that gig maybe) whilst U2 prepare to fill arenas around the globe. Is that a fair reflection of the cultural significance both bands had over alternative rock in the early to mid 80's?

Does it even matter anymore?

I'm not one of the "Mac hates U2 so I'm going to as well" brigade. I really liked them upto The Unforgettable Fire in fact...I even like bits of what came later though would never buy one of their albums. However they are considered to be the most enduring and successful acts of the 80's.

Where does that leave the Bunnymen? (apart from not having a label). In 200 years time will the Bunnymen be the Salieri to U2's Mozart?

I dont know the answer...what do you gives think? (joined up sentences only please Wojo).

[fat cherry]

well scouse... they are reaping the rewards of all that stuff back in the 80s - endless touring, doing all the right shows being on the nice side of being a rocknroll band. They have a manager who is on theoir side and a label, well who knows but obviously they are happy to deal with the label positively. Plus they have always had their eye on the business end. So now they are so big it doesn't matter that much what they do because the business end takes care - enough people will buy the album, even if its crap, to make it a success, then there will be the massive tour where presumably the real money will be made.

Musically I agree with you. Still prefer them to durannies, spandaus (who I hear have patched up their differences and are about to tour, whoopeee) and culture club. The new single is shite, dull and pointless. Sexy boots? Bono seems unable to do sexy. But the fountain? hmmm.

not that many people have ever cared that much for the buns. Small bunch of faithfuls and still waiting for the big break but still cant be arsed to do that much about it. Presumably they get by financially and in searching for the art or the cash they do minimal amounts when they can fit it in. And lets not kid outselves about the ocean rain gigs being anything than a one off - a few thousand fans in the same place as opposed to spread over thirty tiny venues.

So in summary, and I understand this is probably rambling. Lack of a decent manager - or business headed manager at least, lack of label support and a self belief that went no further than macs mouth - which I think is another possible mail in the coffin. All that gobbing off would have been OK if they have delivered but now he comes across as a bit of a nob. And a lack of willingnes to do all that endless touring, be polite in interviews and speak loud and clear!!!!!! mummble mumble killing moon etc.

er.... thats it. (fir now we haven't had this discussion for a while have we).

Chez.

[fat cherry]

oh and relentlessly shit videos. and since the drummer died, no good drummers, apart from reecey boy. and since the bass player left.... etc. were all doomed etc.

[fat cherry]

in fact its a masterclass in just how important the 'boys in the band' are.

[Mr. Brian]

Two big factors that have not been mentioned.

The name Echo & the Bunnymen itself probably didn't help them.

The whole thing fell apart just as they were breaking in America beyond college campuses. In order for a band to achieve the kind of success that U2 enjoys, you need mainstream American fans which translates into a lot of money.

[JackT]

The whole thing fell apart just as they were breaking in America beyond college campuses. In order for a band to achieve the kind of success that U2 enjoys, you need mainstream American fans which translates into a lot of money.

True that. The first gig I saw was basically their last, and I had only gotten in to them when Ocean Rain came out. Great concert, though.

[Crystal Days]

It's all down to Mac's gob and ego. And staying in Liverpool couldn't have helped.

[zabird]

It's all down to Mac's gob and ego. And staying in Liverpool couldn't have helped.

Don't think where they live matters, does it? ... U2 planned world domination from Dublin.

I think when it gets down to it, the Bunnymen didn't want it bad enough. U2 did, and they were willing to do what it took to get there.

As a side note, if Ian Curtis hadn't have killed himself, perhaps it would have been Joy Division that conquered the planet instead, and who knows where U2 would be today. Of course, we'll never know.

[In The Margins]

I never get tired of this subject being rehashed over and over. It's like a time loop with Kelsey Grammer as your captain.

[Mr.Sparkle]

I don't know and honestly don't care. I will say that I truly believe that when U2 calls it a day they'll be forgotten 5 or 10 years after the fact. Who have they influenced? Who really loves their music? Most of their music is fairly forgettable and mediocre and I say that as a person that LOVES music and not just as a Bunnymen fan. It has nothing to do with them, but you look around and it seems like the amount of bands the Bunnymen have influenced grows everyday. Can you say the same thing about U2? Maybe they've influenced a lot of bands, too, I don't follow them at all so don't know, but it doesn't seem like it.

I honestly don't even see that many similarities between the 2 bands so I never understood the comparison.

[guitarplayer on here too]

Perhaps that is the one thing the Bunnymen has over U2 if there are any comparisons. You do get the odd band that say that they were influenced by U2, or a guitarist that says that the Edge encouraged them to pick up a guitar, but for all their success, and the Bunnymen's less consistent success, the Bunnymen still have a cultish and almost mythical status about them. You'd think that would have waned or been extremely damaged recently with the lack of album successes, the chicken in the basket tours, being dropped by labels, collaboration with the Spice Girls and only two of the founding members left with the lead singer not the kind of vocalist he once was. But time and time again, new bands are saying that they have been influenced by the Bunnymen (and Joy Division, who also have the same kind of mythical status, but largely because of the death of Curtis). U2 have never had that and never will.

[black francis]

How many decent acts nowadays list U2 as an influence? How many list the Bunnymen? I'd say that answers who'll be remembered when we're long gone. The Bunnymen are among that group of bands who never "made it" but whose legacy will be reflected in the bands they influenced and inspired and not their bank statements. Bands like The Velvet Underground, Ramones, Pixies, Television, Suicide, The New York Dolls, etc. The subversive ones.

And not many bands can claim a catalogue that includes Crocodiles, Heaven Up Here, Porcupine, Ocean Rain and even Burned.

[Mr. Brian]

I will say that I truly believe that when U2 calls it a day they'll be forgotten 5 or 10 years after the fact.

Remind me to invite you the next time I play poker. Bring lots of cash.

[Mr.Sparkle]

Perhaps that is the one thing the Bunnymen has over U2 if there are any comparisons. You do get the odd band that say that they were influenced by U2, or a guitarist that says that the Edge encouraged them to pick up a guitar, but for all their success, and the Bunnymen's less consistent success, the Bunnymen still have a cultish and almost mythical status about them. You'd think that would have waned or been extremely damaged recently with the lack of album successes, the chicken in the basket tours, being dropped by labels, collaboration with the Spice Girls and only two of the founding members left with the lead singer not the kind of vocalist he once was. But time and time again, new bands are saying that they have been influenced by the Bunnymen (and Joy Division, who also have the same kind of mythical status, but largely because of the death of Curtis). U2 have never had that and never will.

Exactly. I'm sure U2 have influenced some bands, it'd be crazy to think otherwise, but I sure don't know of any! I think the fact that U2 obviously wanted to be a huge band is reflected in their music and while they have attained that commercial success, that approach has ultimately doomed their music (and ultimate legacy) and is the reason a lot of their stuff is so forgettable. I think it's clear that the Bunnymen (or at least Mac) wanted huge success as well, but were only going to do it on their own terms. Just my opinion, I'm sure others would disagree. I respect the Edge, but can't stand Bono, that guy obviously has a messiah complex. I remember Henry Rollins once said that U2 has the weakest drum and bass section of any band he's ever heard. I thought that was pretty funny.

[Mr.Sparkle]

Remind me to invite you the next time I play poker. Bring lots of cash.

You think their music will live on? I just don't see it happening. Time will tell...I've never seen a band sell so many albums and yet seem so irrelevant to the rest of the music world, it just doesn't seem like anyone cares, at least anymore. Might just be me, don't know.