Globally, is the US hated more or hated less since 9/11/01?

[Frank The Bunny]

On this horrible anniversary (I thought it would get easier - it hasn't much), I wonder how sentiments are about the USA and Americans, particularly from those who live outside the States. For example, I don't remember Canadians talking smack about the US a few years ago, yet it seems now all my Canadian friends do.

[JackT]

I perceive that you think we are "hated more" since 9/11.

I find it hard to agree, since on 9/10, a bunch of Saudi terrorists set out to fly 4 jetliners into high profile targets, with the intention of killing 10s of thousands of Americans. They succeded in killing only a few thousand. Before this there was the original WTC bombing, and the Cole, and the Khobar towers bombings, to name a few.

If we are "hated more" now, I will take it, as it appears to be the ineffectual "no exploding people" kind of hate that you find among the neutered whining class that has always hated us anyway.

Tell your Canadian friends to shove it were the sun shines even less.

[moondance]

You don't have a choice for "I don't give a rat's ass!"

[crystal daze]

You don't have an option for 'lost the momentum for being liked a hell of a lot more'. As far as I remember there was a large amount of sympathy for the US in the immediate aftermath. The world domination enterprises that followed lost it again. (Not that Bliar behaved much better.)

[insanejane]

Sorry to say this (it's just my opinion) but I think it started way before we had the Shah of Iran assassinated decades ago to replace him with someone WE wanted. I think it started on a much smaller scale when we came over from England and took the land from the native Americans and continued to grow into a giant, greedy monster.

I feel we brought 9/11 on ourselves and it was long overdue. I'm not a cold, heartless person. I feel terrible for all the victims, especially the children that were supposed to be on a field trip that day and went down on the Pentagon. I had a cousin in the second tower who was lucky enough to survive because she left her desk and the building even though she was told to stay when the first tower went down.

I know 50% of Americans will disagree with me on this but I think if Obama were to win the election (which he won't) the world would be a lot nicer to us and see us in a whole different light. It's already evident how the world feels about him.

[withahip]

Sorry to say this (it's just my opinion) but I think it started way before we had the Shah of Iran assassinated decades ago to replace him with someone WE wanted.

We did??????? And we wanted the Ayatollah? ( Now that was the CIA WITH British Petroleum that went in there, right?)


Ok, who forgot to send me the memo!?!?!?!?

I think it started on a much smaller scale when we came over from England and took the land from the native Americans and continued to grow into a giant, greedy monster.

You mean under the rule of King George? So it started with the British, Spanish and French and their colonization of lands that didn't belong to them?

Wow. 9/11 goes way back.

So it goes to the Spanish taking over Mexico and annihilating a culture? And the French rule of the Louisiana area? Gee, what about Africans selling other Africans to Europeans?
And we can't forget the Mandarins subjugation of the Indonesians during the reign of Chairman Mao and the huge loss of life under that regime. Or the Chinese support of Darfur.

And don't forget the British opium wars that decimated southern China.

[black francis]

Yeah I'm pretty sure the Shah wasn't assasinated. He fled Iran in exile (US and British governments behind it) and while there were two attempts (one attempt by an Iranian fundamentalist and the other by the Soviet Union) neither were US sponsored.

But the U.S. and Britishg governments did make a mess out of that situation which still effects the world today. But I wouldn't say 9/11 was brought on by ourselves

[withahip]

But I wouldn't say 9/11 was brought on by ourselves

I am willing to agree US suffers from blowback. What I am saying is let's not pretend the US is somehow unique in this.

There sure were a lot of cars being burnt every night in France due to racial tensions a little while ago.

Remember the Australians trying to eradicate the aboriginals.

European countries cutting up Africa so that the effects are still felt today.

Hey - so many of these historical devastation seem to trace their way back to Europe!

[black francis]

And as to the poll question, I'm sure we are disliked more than ever around the world but that is truly last on my list of worries. I try to treat everyone with respect regardless of their origin, sexual preference, religious beliefs, etc. If being American is a strike against me in most people's then what can you do? I like it here.

And there isn't any hand-wringing on my part over this country's history. We're just as brutal as everybody else.

[insanejane]

Sorry, I meant to say the guy (Mossadegh) who preceded the Shah fifty years ago and it was called "Operation Ajax" by the U.S. except I don't remember if he fled or we were successful in killing him since I was only 2 years old at the time.


New York Times reporter Steven Kinzer said:

"It is not far-fetched to draw a line from Operation Ajax through the Shah's repressive regime and the Islamic revolution to the fireballs that engulfed the World Trade Center in New York".

I have to agree with him, we brought 9/11 0n ourselves.


It's just mine and his opinion. Sure other countries try to take land that isn't theirs but they've also suffered a lot of terrorism over the years LONG before we experienced any. It's like we're the only country that matters on the planet and that's a really ignorant and immature way to think.

[withahip]

It's like we're the only country that matters on the planet and that's a really ignorant and immature way to think.

Pssssst- Having lived abroad a loooong time and travled a lot - every country I've been to is like that. And when they have the chance, they act like it.



Didn't Albright apologize? Not that it makes it alright - but it was recognized correct?

And the Mullahs are doing a bang up job over there now it seems.

I had accepted an offer to go back overseas to work in 2002. When I saw Bushy say, "You are either with us or against us" - pretty much threatening the world that was supporting us at that point I knew I'd stay state side and took a different job.

Sure other countries try to take land that isn't theirs but they've also suffered a lot of terrorism over the years LONG before we experienced any.

But you brought up Spain taking the Cuba and Mexico and Britain taking the Northeast. I think King George would have called the Sons of Liberty terrorists. And native Americans helped one Europeans slaughter one another.

[JackT]

I know 50% of Americans will disagree with me on this but I think if Obama were to win the election (which he won't) the world would be a lot nicer to us and see us in a whole different light. It's already evident how the world feels about him.

You mean like when Clinton was president, at the glorious maximum of our international regard? During which time the 9/11 attacks were planned and implemented? And the '93 WTC bombing?

I have news for you: our reputation abroad is just fine. It is not true the world hates us. We are hated by the international LEFT. Always have been, always will. They feel about us just the way YOU and your domestic ilk do: our very founding is steeped in blood and is irredeemable. In this view, no amount of Obama or Clinton or Carter Presidencies can forgive America the sin of being America.

You claimed before that you are not a cold-hearted person, but I must disagree with that. My observation is that you are among the more bitter and hateful characters I have run across on the internet.

The last time you voiced your "we had it coming" opinion, it was a few days after 9/11 when two other forum members had posted recollections, naming them by name, of friends they had lost on that day.

You also put the lie to the "squandered sympathy" meme. Those who hate us thought we "had it coming."

[insanejane]

Now YOU'RE a "liar" which seems to be a favorite word of yours that I"ve noticed you use to refer to forum members on here when they don't hold your same opinion.

Where did I mention in my two posts that we are hated by the world? I NEVER said the world hated us. I said that I thought maybe if Obama won, we might be seen in a different light.
Because, I don't recall that kind of enthusiasm in 8 years from other countries that Bush has received while traveling overseas. In fact, there's more attention being paid to him not being assassinated. He travels like the Pope with a goddamn bubble around him.

Al Gore, not Clinton, warned Bush that planes would be flown into buildings because the country and Clinton were too distracted at the time with cigars in vaginas just like the current distraction, the lipstick and pig thing going on right now.

You said I posted "we had it coming" within days of 9/11? Please show me where you have that information as I was not on this OR the other forum in 2001.

My "domestic ilk" ?? I really resent that and I resent the fact that everyone is a "liar" that doesn't hold your views.

So Jack, you can take your fucking Nazi views and shove them up your fucking self-centered Nazi ass!

[JackT]

Now YOU'RE a "liar" which seems to be a favorite word of yours that I"ve noticed you use to refer to forum members on here when they don't hold your same opinion.

...
My "domestic ilk" ?? I really resent that and I resent the fact that everyone is a "liar" that doesn't hold your views.

Please cite an instance of me ever calling anyone a liar, much less merely for disagreeing with me. I'm well aware that you resent many things, most of which are imaginary.

You said I posted "we had it coming" within days of 9/11? Please show me where you have that information as I was not on this OR the other forum in 2001.

9/11 comes every year. Here is the post you made last year on 9/15. The two forum members who had posted remembrances of loved ones were Mary (moondance) and Elizabeth (Spookey, et al.)

I've always seemed to lurk when it came to Spooky threads except for when I recently posted on her 9/11 thing (although I'm so goddamn sick of Americans complaining about ONE incident when, since who knows for how long other countries have endured MANY terrorist attacks) only because it wasn't her usual asking for advice.

So Jack, you can take your fucking Nazi views and shove them up your fucking self-centered Nazi ass!

The Nazis hated America too. Should we have tried to improve our image with them? Let them elect our President perhaps? I noticed you were very impressed with his reception by the infallible German electorate.

[Frank The Bunny]

I'm sorry if my posting of this poll/thread has caused any ill feelings between forum members.

Every Sept 10th for the last six years, I tell myself "this year's going to be different". This year, I'm not going the feel the kind of sorrow for those lost on that day. Though I was actually able to put in a day's work this year (for the first 9/11 since the attacks), every Sept 11, I get sucked in. I flip through channels, and wind up on MSNBC, who rebroadcast the events in real-time. Then the old feelings come back.


It's been worse since the war began though. Now I mourn for the young men and women of our military dying in the desert. I mourn for the innocent people caught in the crosfire - victims of stray bullets, of IEDs, of errant bombing raids.

3000 innocent people dead on 9/11. Nearly 100,000 military and civilian deaths in the aftermath, with no end in sight.

It sickens & saddens me.