McCain - Palin

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Postby insanejane » Sat Aug 30, 2008 7:58 pm

Frank The Bunny wrote:What a coincidence - she's a stupid condescending choice as a running mate.

Gee, ladies (PUMAs - you know who you are) - we know you're awfully sore that Hillary's not the nominee and didn't make the ticket. Here's your chance to cast your vote for a candidate with a vagina. Never mind that you're moderate or liberal that you believe strongly in a woman's right to choose and that she's a uber-conservative anti-abortionist. Sarah Palin has a uterus and knows how to use it.

The Spice Girls said it best: "Girl Power!"




Tina Fey has got to stop saying that "The glass ceiling can still be broken and Hillary voters can still have their chance and vote for her" because their beliefs couldn't be any more opposite. I'm thinking that Tina CANNOT POSSIBLY have a vagina because to believe it is right to force a woman to have a child as the result of rape/incest is about as misogynist as John McCain who once referred to his second wife in public as a "cunt". They make a good team!
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Postby Frank The Bunny » Sat Aug 30, 2008 9:10 pm

Tina Fey? Yeah I see it

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Postby withahip » Sun Aug 31, 2008 2:10 am

Beautiful/smart/funny . . . .beautiful/smart/persistent.
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Postby fat cherry » Sun Aug 31, 2008 4:46 am

so, in the interests of education...., I know I could probably find this from the internet but I guess ou lot will be more direct. How does this work? From here it looks like your candidate for president spends months jumping through all the hoops of the primaries to get the nomination, and then picks some random person as their VP. Or do the parties have a set of VP nominees? And so you have to vote for them too when it comes down to it? O do they get a free ride on the presidential vote? And as for the suggestion that people will or wont vote for someone depending on their race or gender, of course they will. Your party faithful might not but theres all those millions of potential voters who dont normally bother that might be tempted.
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Postby Frank The Bunny » Sun Aug 31, 2008 5:49 am

fat cherry wrote:How does this work? From here it looks like your candidate for president spends months jumping through all the hoops of the primaries to get the nomination, and then picks some random person as their VP. And as for the suggestion that people will or wont vote for someone depending on their race or gender, of course they will.


On the first part - it's not a random selection. In a perfect world, a presidential candidate picks as his/her running mate someone who shares his/hs views and whose strengths are in areas where the candidate may be weaker. But it's more likely these days that the running mate is chosen to appeal to sectors of the electorate that the candidate may polling weakly. McCain doesn't play well to young voters, young women voters or the religious right. He chose somebody to hopefully fill those gaps.

Now about this will/won't vote based upon race/gender and "of course they will" statement. I think you may be referring to our debate over whether Sarah Palin will appeal the disenfranchised Hillary Clinton voters. If those voters chose Hillary based on the substance of her message as well as her gender, there's no way in hell they'll vote for McCain/Palin. I think the number of people who voted for Hillary strictly because of her gender has to be very low.
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Postby fat cherry » Sun Aug 31, 2008 6:56 am

my question was not so much the reasoning behind the choice but whether there is an electoral process anywhere along the line or is it just the presidential candidates choice (as it appears to be). And then when it comes down to the election itself do you vote for the VP seperately - and if so what if they lose (sorry that was an addition there)? Also, your turnout is about the same as ours - about 50% I think recently, maybe less, so there's a huge pool of potential voters who might just vote because its a woman. I'd have thought anyone who is interested enough in party politics to consider themselves 'a hillary voter' aren't just going to change sides (though I've read somewhere that the democrats are worried about that possibility because hillary lost) but I wouldn't overestimate the intelligence of the population on anything really.
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Postby Frank The Bunny » Sun Aug 31, 2008 7:04 am

The vice presidential nominee is selected by the presidential candidate. I believe the body of delegates at the national convention could select someone else, but I don't think that's happened in recent history.

From Wikipedia:

The 1940 election is considered the beginning of the modern era of vice presidential selection, as before the 1940's precedent set by Franklin Delano Roosevelt the vice president was chosen by the party leaders and the presidential nominee was not involved in the decisions

Under the original terms of the Constitution, the members of the U.S. Electoral College voted only for office of president rather than for both president and vice president. Each elector was allowed to vote for two people for the top office. The person receiving the greatest number of votes (provided that such a number was a majority of electors) would be president, while the individual who received the next largest number of votes became vice president. If no one received a majority of votes, then the U.S. House of Representatives would choose among the five highest vote-getters, with each state getting one vote. In such a case, the person who received the highest number of votes but was not chosen president would become vice president. If there were a tie for second, then the U.S. Senate would choose the vice president.

The original plan, however, did not foresee the development of political parties and their adversarial role in the government. In the election of 1796, for instance, Federalist John Adams came in first, and Democratic-Republican Thomas Jefferson came second. Thus, the president and vice president were from opposing parties. Predictably, Adams and Jefferson clashed over issues such as states' rights and foreign policy.

A greater problem occurred in the election of 1800, in which the two participating parties each had a secondary candidate they intended to elect as vice president, but the more popular Democratic-Republican party failed to execute that plan with their electoral votes. Under the system in place at the time (Article Two, Section 1, Clause 3), the electors could not differentiate between their two candidates, so the plan had been for one elector to vote for Thomas Jefferson but not for Aaron Burr, thus putting Burr in second place. This plan broke down for reasons that are disputed, and both candidates received the same number of votes. After 35 deadlocked ballots in the U.S. House of Representatives, Jefferson finally won on the 36th ballot and Burr became vice president.

This tumultuous affair led to the adoption of the Twelfth Amendment in 1804, which directed the electors to use separate ballots to vote for the president and vice president. While this solved the problem at hand, it ultimately had the effect of lowering the prestige of the vice presidency, as the office was no longer for the leading challenger for the presidency.

The separate ballots for President and Vice President became something of a moot issue later in the 19th century when it became the norm for popular elections to determine a state's Electoral College delegation. Electors chosen this way are pledged to vote for a particular presidential and vice-presidential candidate (offered by the same political party). So, while the Constitution says that the president and vice president are chosen separately, in practice they are chosen together.

If no vice presidential candidate receives an Electoral College majority, then the Senate selects the Vice President, in accordance with the United States Constitution. This is a curious anomaly since the sitting Vice President is also President of the Senate and would be called upon to break a tie vote, possibly for himself or his successor. The election of 1836 is the only election so far where the office of the Vice President has been decided by the Senate. During the campaign, President Martin Van Buren's running mate Richard Mentor Johnson was accused of having lived with a black woman. Virginia's 23 electors, who were pledged to Van Buren and Johnson, refused to vote for Johnson (but still voted for Van Buren). The election went to the Senate, where Johnson was elected, 33-17.

The vice presidential candidates of the major national political parties are formally selected by each party's quadrennial nominating convention, following the selection of their presidential candidates. The official process is identical to the one by which the presidential candidates are chosen, with delegates placing the names of candidates into nomination, followed by a ballot in which candidates must receive a majority to secure the party's nomination. In practice, the presidential nominee has considerable influence on the decision, and in 20th century it became customary for that person to select a preferred running mate, who is then nominated and accepted by the convention. In recent years, with the presidential nomination usually being a foregone conclusion as the result of the primary process, the selection of a vice presidential candidate is often announced prior to the actual balloting for the presidential candidate, and sometimes before the beginning of the convention itself. Often, the presidential nominee will name a vice presidential candidate who will bring geographic or ideological balance to the ticket or appeal to a particular constituency. The vice presidential candidate might also be chosen on the basis of traits the presidential candidate is perceived to lack, or on the basis of name recognition. Popular runners-up in the presidential nomination process are commonly considered, to foster party unity.

The ultimate goal of vice presidential candidate selection is to help and not hurt the party's chances of getting elected. An overly dynamic selection can backfire by outshining the presidential candidate. A classic example of this came in 1988, when Democratic candidate Michael Dukakis chose experienced Texas Senator Lloyd Bentsen as his running mate.

The last presidential candidate to not name a vice presidential choice, leaving the matter up to the convention, was Democrat Adlai Stevenson in 1956. The convention chose Tennessee Senator Estes Kefauver over Massachusetts Senator (and later president) John F. Kennedy. At the tumultuous 1972 Democratic convention, presidential nominee George McGovern selected Senator Thomas Eagleton as his running mate, but numerous other candidates were either nominated from the floor or received votes during the balloting. Eagleton nevertheless received a majority of the votes and the nomination.

In cases where the presidential nomination is still in doubt as the convention approaches, the campaigns for the two positions may become intertwined. In 1976, Ronald Reagan, who was trailing President Gerald R. Ford in the presidential delegate count, announced prior to the Republican National Convention that, if nominated, he would select Senator Richard Schweiker as his running mate. This move backfired to a degree, as Schweiker's relatively liberal voting record alienated many of the more conservative delegates who were considering a challenge to party delegate selection rules to improve Reagan's chances. In the end, Ford narrowly won the presidential nomination and Reagan's selection of Schweiker became moot.
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Postby JackT » Sun Aug 31, 2008 9:39 am

In the olden days VPs were elected separately. You would get situations where the President and VP were of different parties and even political enemies. I believe Andrew Jackson's first VP fell into this category.
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Postby insanejane » Sun Aug 31, 2008 6:52 pm

"Bristol Palin rightfully should be able to embrace her child in public as her own, with no shame, and no quarter. And a mother should be just as accepting".
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Postby moses (2) » Mon Sep 01, 2008 4:23 am

Frank The Bunny wrote:
Gee, ladies (PUMAs - you know who you are) - we know you're awfully sore that Hillary's not the nominee and didn't make the ticket. Here's your chance to cast your vote for a candidate with a vagina. "


You know in Ireland the word Gee is a slang term for Vagina -- we pronounce it a bit different -- I actually do not like the word
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Postby Frank The Bunny » Mon Sep 01, 2008 9:59 am

moses (2) wrote:You know in Ireland the word Gee is a slang term for Vagina -- we pronounce it a bit different -- I actually do not like the word


In America, Gee is short for "Jeezus fucking Christ! People sure like to take offense where none was intended"
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Postby withahip » Mon Sep 01, 2008 10:41 am

The records of the two teams show McCain/Palin to have greater fiscal responsibility and made greater stands against corporations. Reading between the lines, Obama's plans seem to indicate a return to the dole.
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Postby Epsilon » Mon Sep 01, 2008 5:53 pm

Palin's 17 year old daughter just announced to be pregnant...
I did say I hated politics, but loved to laugh - this is a good one!
You put your lips to her lips to stop the lie.
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Postby withahip » Mon Sep 01, 2008 6:42 pm

She's going to marry the father.


Second mistake.
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Postby insanejane » Mon Sep 01, 2008 8:57 pm

"We're proud of Bristol's decision to have her baby."__ Sarah Palin


But what if Bristol's mom becomes VP? Will Bristol still have the right to decide?
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