Pale Fountains.. Mick Interview with Bunnymen Mention

[tomo]

Just read this on shacknet... this is from a French inteview years ago, and thought some of you might be interested?

The Pale Fountains play two gigs this weekend Liverpool and London......


THE PALE FOUNTAINS, genious composers and arrangers, release between 84 and 86 two luxuriant albums : Pacific Street and From across the kitchen table. But bad luck meets them. Washed out by heroïn, the band remains on the frigid canvas of the Mersey Sound. Convalescing in Shack, Michael Head refused during three long years to touch the subject of his lost jewel. Today, at last, he relates the peculiar story of The Pale Fountains.



For seven years, you have been composing for The Pale Fountains, and since three years now, you compose for Shack, whose new songs are mainly influenced by the rock scene of...

Manchester ? I thought as much (he laughs)... I think I'll often have to explain myself on that point. Well, let's think. How coul I explain it to you... First, I'd like us to talk about northern England stage, rather than Manchester's. There are 80 kilometers between Liverpool and Manchester, the same music is heard in both town, and in the whole area. The influences are the same. It's quite simple. In fact, when you go there to buy a box of cereals in the supermarket, you hear the Stone Roses playing. If you enter a pub and that you want to chose a record from the juke-box, you can chose between the complete Beatles, two or three titles of Kylie Minogue, a few disco records, and a dozen of old things like Dean Martin. All the rest is stuff like the Mondays, the Charlatans or the latest Indie from you've never heard. If you call a cab to go back home, the Inspiral Carpets are on the radio. Finaly, at the end of the day, you've heard 10 songs of the new Northern scene without having realized it. So if you decide to write a song, there is a lot of chances your inconscient influences emerge from the tips of your fingers. Only the La's are able to fight against that. I find them sublime. The beauty of their music comes from its simplicity. Pure songs, strong melodies. I love them. I've just heard some parts of their album. It's wonderful. Liverpool : the revenge.

Your latest gig in Paris make one think of the La's, with this little typical extra guitars.

I think we reason in a similar way, with the difference that they resist studio session more than us. I'm always tempted to work again on songs, to add a little of twelve strings or violins, but they want to protect their creations as if they were newborn babies. That is what has maid them meet problems. They faced nag producers who tried to make a mess of their marvels with samplers. Tapes have been thrown to the bin three times. I admire Lee for being able to throw £ 10 000 to the bin thrice. Good old La's...

Liverpool bands seem to always have been really proud of their town. Isn't it a bit contradictory to what you just called 'Northern England rock scene' ?

No. There is indeed a great pride. As well as a rivaltry with Manchester. But it's fair enough. It's just for fun. In fact, these two towns are in the same shit, in an economic sense. People think in the same way, and always finally agree on main debates. Only football and music divide us. In the matter of football as well as pop music, Manchester is bad-tempered. But we have got a lot of class.

In the years of the Pale Fountains, you were very close to other bands, like Echo and the Bunnymen, the Wild Swans or Pink Industry...

That's true. We were friends with everyone, even with Julian Cope. That shows hom much tolerant we were (laughs)... but we weren't paying attention to the fact of being of Liverpool or not. Let's say it was just the ideal place to grow up together. The town inspired us. That's probably what Manchester misses, romanticism. The one who told us everything, good and bad, is McCulloch. Each one of our... weird experiments were made under his wing : 'Come on, kid, don't be afraid, smoke this, you'll see it's good'. He's a real degenerate guy, Ian, but he's also an adorable person. I also think he's a sublime singer. We tried everything because of him. Somtimes we spent 3 days without sleeping, because he had decided we should drink instead of sleep. He had developped the idea that alcohol replaces sleep advantageously. And it worked... two or three days ! After that we slept one week (laughs)... there is something that noone knows about McCulloch : he is completely myopic. When he shows off onstage, he can't see a thing. When he waddles in front of photographs, he can't even see the lens. The only moment qhen he puts on his awful glasses are at home or when he plays football. We often play together, end to be able to see the ball, he fixed his glasses with sellotape all around his head. As he is a very good dribbler, the only way to take the ball from him is to tear off his sellotape. Then, his glasses fall on the ground, and he is lost on the sports ground (laughs)...

Did you ever try to go to live elsewhere ?

Yes, in 82/83. With the Pale Fountains, we have been living in London for 18 months, after Virgin signed us. Then we got back home. Every Northern inhabitants will tell you that one can't live in London.We suffocate, there. Ask the La's.. My home is here. I need to stay near Liverpool, because I belong to this city.I feel deeply concerned by all that is related to Liverpool : changes, renovations, destructions. Shack's first album is almost exclusively about urbanism and society problems. "Northern social realism", as journalists call it. For example, "Who killed Clayton Square" is about a wonderfull little place that has been destroyed because it was the place where gays met. It's idiot, but that's the way it is. If you are gay or native of India or Asia, you are herded into shabby estates by the authorities. On an other side, if you don't belong to one ethnic group, you won't get a house at all. This is not a policy that will bring racism down. I can't understand. However I think that there is money in Liverpool, but public services are rotten from the inside. It make me wanna cry when I see what they have done of Everton.

I am lucky. Thanks to music, I can afford to live in a flat in Kensington, in the centre of Liverpool. Architecture is still protected there. The bigest mistakes have been done in the suburbs. A lot of architects have ended in prison. One had decided to build an artificial skipiste at the end of the town. Once the works were ended, they realized that the bottom of the piste ended at 5 metres of te motorway, so that a skier having problems would have crossed the fences and have ended on the bitume. This architect serves a sentence of three years. Urbanism around Liverpool is a wide swindle. It brings nervous breakdown and suicide. In the south of the town, there is a 30 metres high building. My girlfriend knows the woman who lives on the top floor. This woman has been rewarded from the Samaritans because she has succeeded in dissuading 15 persons to jump of the window.

There in another Northern weird problem : creation of Museums dedicated to what was once the wealth of the area : mines, textile industry...

I know, it's stupid. Businessmen don't know what to do to bring tourists. There are three or for museums around Liverpool, and above all a huge mining sanctuary near Newcastle. You are explained there what made the strenght of the area until the crisis, without mentioning that the labourers that worked there never found another work again. Imagine yourself as a worker who sees his working place transformed into a museum. What was left of his honour is killed. People who want to draw toutists have no sence of decency. My father has suffered a little from that. He is on the dole and never will find another work. He is too old. In fact, it's becaus of his that we have begun with music, my brother and I. My father had an acoustic guitar. But he never let us play it, that irritated us to the highest degree. At around 11 or 12, we have bought our own guitar. This represented two years' savings. Then we started learning. We used to collect records from Love, and the Birds. We hed fun in playing them from the first note to the last. Quickly, we played better than our father. That turned him mad with anger.

Was there a musical rivaltry between you brother and yourself ?

Rivaltry ? There wasn't. Something more like an emulation, surely. Then, we decided to share the work. John had to practise lead guitars lineups, and I practises singing. We've been working like that for two or three years. I hardly ever went to school, I couldn't stand discipline. At school, everyone bored me. So I played football, or else I stayed with my mother. She likes company. We sung together. My mother has an extraordinary voice to sing old songs. She hed me working my voice. She alson encouraged us to play with friends. So we played in the drawing-room, and my mother made tea for us. We made much noise with our 6 strings, nothing to do with Donovan (smile).. then, I had to earn a litlle of money. I have been mending cameras for a while. But I got fired. Then I servee tea in a tea room for old biddies. I got fired again. Then I became a full-time singer.

How old were you when you decide to dedicate to music solely ?

I was 19 when we began to rehearse assiduously. John was 15. The sparkle came when I met Chris. I loved him from the start because he was very funny. The Pale Fountains were born in his cellar, it was in 81, I think. Maybe end 80, I don't know. It was in winter anyways. We were playing every evening. Two acoustic guitars, Chris' bass and a litlle drum. At the beginning, Chris wanted to sing. But he was singing awfully out of tune. Then I to threw myself in the water. My voice wasn't that bad. I practised it everday, so that it had become quite good for our first single. Not as brilliant as Morrissey's, but quite good anyways. My brother is a good singer as well.

Very quickly, you have aroused records labels' interest. How would you explain that ?

I never understood why. I think it was the same thing that what happens in Manchester now. Artistic managers were on the watch, and regularly came to Liverpool. Many of them came to see us at Chris'. However we sounded like no other band in the town. At that time, anyone sounded like Teardrop Explodes or the Bunnymen. We didn't. We didn't sound like anyone else. At the beginning, we were supposed to sign with Rough Trade, that was beginning thanks to Aztec Camera and Scritti Politti. They proposed us £30 per week. Then Virgin came. And then, we really couldn't refuse their deal.

I've heard of exorbitant prices about this signing with Virgin...

I'm afraid these rumours are well-founded (smile)... we've receive an advance of £ 50 000, to be divided in 4. Then we went to London. This was one of the lines of the contract. Virgin even paid for our flat. We coul buy anything we wanted. The label then accepted that we went back to Liverpool,and then we spen five marvelous years.

You recently sais that you weren't plainly satisfied with the orchestration of "Pacific Street", your first album. This album is however considerated by many as a chef d'oeuvre.

That's true, I find the orchestration very pedant. Even if our will was to add a little more lyricism to the songs, I think we exagerated. But most of all, the first singles of the Palies became obsolescent. I think it's a good album, anyways. During the recording, I didn't know how to make myself out with respect to the music. I didn't know how to behave. Did I have to be strict and keep the pureness of our songs, or make the most of the possibilities Virgin offered us ? Can you imagine how hard it was for me (at 20) to be in front of a 30 persons orchestra ? Im'n not a conductor. Even if all tis was exciting, I was ill-at-ease. I had to talk to Howard Gray, the producer, who translated what I wanted the musicians to do on full score. Tht's when the trouble came, because you can't talk about music. You play it, you can't make any dialog about it. It was a real brain-teaser. I never studied harmonies. I'm not a composer and I can't write music. When three or for violonists only were coming, it was perfect. I dictated the melodies to them, and they reproduced it. But Virgin insisted on the fact that we should record with the orchestra as often as possible. It costed £ 1000 per day, but they didin't care. Fortunately, Howrd is a good guy, and he made good us of it. Finally, we almost never hear the orchestra on the tapes. In spite of that, the record label was really happy with the album. But the sales didn't follow.

Where does this almost latin sound that is characteristic of Pacific street comes from ?

You mean the intro of "Something on my mind", for example ? The front acoustic guitars and percussions come from what we were listenning to at home. My father played things like Astrud Gilberto to me. I love that. I took many ideas from him. "Southbound excursion" on Pacific Street tooks its inspiration in one of these old songs. But the best song on the album was "Natural", which is the most 'rock', the most direct, even if the album version is a bit messy. We have played incerdible versions of in on stage.

How can you explain that this album has never had the success it deserved, as well as 'From across...' two years later ?

Because we came to early. What could we do with our ballads ? At that time, Human League was first number one in the charts. Do you realize what it means ? It was the synths and beat boxes era. People were not ready to hear the Pale Fountains. I took conscience of these things quite recently. During the first gigs of Shack, people came to us to talk about our songs. "Why didn't you play Reach ? It's a great song !. And Jean's not happening should have been number one !".BY means of hearing these things, I began to wonder how it hadn't really worked for us. And I think I got the answer now: we weren't identifiable. Papers need landmarks. There wasn't extreme reactions ; no "I hate", no "I love". There was nothing about the Palies in the papers, simply because journalists didn't know what to write about us. You can't write a report with a "I don't know". I remember a report in whiwh the guy was only writingabout our clothes, our checked skirts, these kind of things. He pretended that we were in the forefront of fashion, that our dressing way was much more revolutionnary than our music, that we should have dive in teenagers fashion. I never read somoething more stupid. Then, everyone followed this idea, and we've been made the most hype band of the year. Frankly, we weren't giving a damn. They were only checked shirts, with no other aim that being comfortable. Then, to upset everyone, we bought ourselves hats (laughs)...

Don't you think money killed the band ?

Yes, of course ! But it's a bit more difficult a situation. Money was an excellent think for the whole of us. We could do anythink we wanted. The problem is that money can buy anything, good things as well as bad. Because I've always been very curious, I began to experiment everything. I say : everything. Therefore, it's money that killed the band, because it enabled us to buy all sorts of drugs we wanted to.

This experiment of drugs was it shared by the entired band ?

It wasn't, and that's the problem. In fact, three of us to shoot frequently. Le drummer, Andy Diagram, our first trupettist (who plays now with James), and me. Andy was the most addicted. He wasn't really addicted, but... the biggest fan of it. It took quite a lot of it, because I thought it would help me to write. My brother was tooking a little, from time to time, just for fun. He was still very young at that time, and I tried to dissuade him from doing it. The problem is not that we were three or four to take drugs : the real problem is that Chris never touched it. He always was against this idea. He saw our state degrade little by little. And we were beginning to disagree on our music, because of drugs. So, during the recording of our second album, I wanted us to make efforts in the matter of voices. I wanted chorists, but Chris said that it was junkie delirium. We often argue. After "From across the kitchen table", I didn't even pay attention to what he was saying to me anymore. He asked me ten or twenty times to stop the dope. But we were takink too much of it to hear him. He was tormented with being helpless. My brother was takink more and more, and I had got fatter a lot. We didn't often rehearse, we were convinced that the band would never take off. I spent all my money in bullshit. We should have gone all out, in 86, after the release of 'Jean's not happening'. We should have toured , but we didn't want to leave Liverpool anymore, 'cos we were feeling... fine there. Chris knew that. He wanted to work. We didn't. Then, instead of whatching the band die by inches, he prefered yo kill it. I thin he was right.

I lost everything because of drugs. I lost my good health, £ 150000, and most of all, my best friend. All that remains is two albums and one guitar. Jhon was clever enough to keep seven guitars. He calls that his testimony (smile)... after the band death, I had slowed down on drugs. I then realize that Chris was right ; without our messing the band would still exist. I wanted to tell him, to apologize. I almost didn't saw him anymore, and when I felt ready to confess to him, just after Shack was created, Chris died from a brain haemorrage. I haven't even been able to apologize.

But since you were sorry, why didn't you ask Chris to be bass player for Shack ?

Because he fell in love. With Jayne Casey, Pink Industry singer. Anyways, he probably would have refused my proposal. I have never been able to speks of this before, because I hadn't extricated myself from drug yet.Now, I only take joke stuff. That's why I can express critical opinions about myself. I killed the Pale Fountains and I'm not proud of that.

Didn't you ever think about carrying out without Chris ?

I didn't. Impossible. Moreover, I had enormous problems with Virgin. They had called me to London to ask me to fire the band and try something solo. Obviously I refused. We went on tour in Japan. It was like holidays, I knew the band was on a slippery slope. These were our last gigs with Chris. Back to Liverpool, the phone was constantly ringing. Virgin was offering me money, a lot of money, if I kept on alone. The rest of the band never knew it. I was forced to establish a code. Let teh phone ring once, hung up, ring a second time and I last I answered. Then they wrote to me, threatening me to tear up the contract. They finally did it. But I didn't care. Without Chris, the band couldn't exist no more.

What happened to the drum player ?

He is a taxi driver. He suffered a lot from the split. I did as well, but I was like anaesthesized by certain substances, like a sick person. I cannot do something else that advise anyone against this shit.

Zilch was rehearsed in 1988. Why did you wait so long before rehearsing a second album of Shack ?

I became the father of a littel girl. I wanted to see her in her first years. She's two, now, and I can work again. I've been listenning to a lot of music : Miles Davies, Gerschwin, Stravinski, as well as De Le Soul, the Stone Roses and the La's. I think that our single 'I know you well' will work out well. What about the album ? I don't know. I hope. it won't ever be like the Pale Fountains again.

Are-you bitter ?

Not too much. I was young, I had the right to make mistakes. But I'm quite happy to have told you our story. It soothes me. I know we have a lot of french friends, and I wanted them to understand. Tell the I apologize. Everyone, forgive me.

[Kounelaki]

Was that from Les Inrockuptibles, Tomo?