235 years ago today...

Tired of discussing the Bunnymen and all the bands that have been influenced by them? This is the place for you.

235 years ago today...

Postby Ivan » Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:48 am

...we told England to suck it.


IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, –That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.–Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.

He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.

He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.

He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.

He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:
For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:
For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences
For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:
For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.
He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.
He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our Brittish brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.
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Postby Dr Cheese » Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:46 am

USA USA USA ....

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Postby Ivan » Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:53 am

Dr Cheese wrote:USA USA USA ....

Image



BROOOOOOSE!

Thank you, Doctor.
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Postby JackT » Mon Jul 04, 2011 10:24 am

Image
"He was a mongoose, rather like a little cat in his fur and his tail, but quite like a weasel in his head and his habits."
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Postby Ivan » Mon Jul 04, 2011 10:39 am

JackT wrote:Image


:biggrin:
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Postby Scouser » Mon Jul 04, 2011 12:24 pm

Not so long ago, the Onion, America's satirical "newspaper", ran a story about what had happened to the real Barack Obama. You know, the one who was all about change and "the audacity of hope". Apparently, he had been kidnapped by an imposter bent on destroying the president by turning him into a "wishy-washy loser". But with another election looming, and a new financial crisis brewing across the Atlantic, the old Obama seems to be back.

By 2 August the US must raise the legal limit on its $14.3 trillion debt or face dire consequences, and Republicans and Democrats have been locked in battle on Capitol Hill. With the crunch deadline approaching, Obama hit out at Republicans last week, saying they favoured corporate jet owners over children and the elderly. Those high-flying fat cats got six mentions in a speech that set out the president's combative stance.

"Before we ask our seniors to pay more for healthcare, before we cut our children's education, it's only fair to ask an oil company or a corporate jet owner that has done so well to give up that tax break that no other business enjoys," Obama said.

The Republicans came back just as hard. Fired up by rightwing, Tea Party-backed newcomers, the Republicans now control the House of Representatives. House speaker John Boehner said Obama was "sorely mistaken" if he believed he could muster enough votes to raise the debt ceiling and raise taxes. "The votes simply aren't there, and they aren't going to be there," Boehner warned. So bad have things got that the politicos are working tomorrow, on 4 July, the Independence Day holiday.

All this political posturing is about to have very serious consequences, according to economists. Some are predicting a second recession if it doesn't get sorted out soon. But, as the deadline approaches, both sides seem, if anything, to be toughening their stance.

It takes two votes to keep America's finances running: one vote to pass budget bills, another to borrow the money. There have been plenty of rows about the borrowing limit in the past. But after conditions are imposed and compromises reached, the limit has always been raised before the US treasury ran out of cash. This year may be different. With US debt at levels unseen in 60 years, Republicans are insisting on at least $2tn (£1.25tn) in spending cuts over 10 years and no tax increases.

If a deal cannot be reached before 2 August, the treasury says it will be forced to default on its debts. No one knows quite what that means yet. Will it choose to stop paying interest, a move that could trigger a global financial crisis? Or will pensioners, soldiers, contractors and other government workers find Uncle Sam welching on his bills?

Either way, economist argue, already jittery financial markets could go into meltdown. "When you start to voluntarily jeopardise the perceived integrity of your government in financial markets, you are creating long-term difficulties. People are never going to forget this," said David Levy, chairman of the Jerome Levy forecasting centre.

Last week 235 senior economists wrote to Washington's bigwigs, warning: "Reaching the limit on total outstanding debt could force a dramatic and sudden cut in federal spending that would destroy jobs and threaten the recovery."

Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody's Analytics, said: "Our biggest problem now is the fragile nature of the recovery. Confidence is lacking. If anything goes off track, people freeze." He predicts that if the row continues on into July, financial markets – distracted in recent weeks by the shenanigans in Greece – will start to get more and more unsettled. "If we get to August, things will get a lot worse."

Even if an agreement cannot be reached, the US could afford to pay interest on its debts. Of every dollar the US spends, about 60 cents comes from revenues, such as taxes, and 40 cents is borrowed money. If the US gets to August and has not raised its borrowing limits, it will have to decide where to cut that 40 cents. Not paying the interest on its loans is a "nightmare scenario", says Paul Ashworth, chief US economist at Capital Economics. Markets could go haywire, with global consequences.

But the interest rate payments probably amount to 5-10 cents of that dollar, Ashworth calculates. "Even with 60 cents you could pay that. But that means massive cuts to the rest of spending. Contractors, social security, unemployment, tax rebates. Spending in the overall economy would plummet, with severe consequences."

According to the Washinton-based Bipartisan Policy Centre, if an agreement is not reached soon, the US will no longer be able to pay all its bills somewhere between 2 August and 9 August. The consequences would be immediate and "harrowing". Federal spending would have to be reduced by as much as 44% for the remainder of the month as the treasury prioritises payments to remain under the debt limit. Choices would have to be made between paying $49.2bn in social security benefits, $34.6bn in defence spending, and $12.8bn in unemployment benefits. Rating agencies, having already threatened to downgrade US debt, would probably do so. Double-dip recession, here we come.

With so many lining up to paint such a nightmarish picture, it's a wonder the political elite is not lining up to call for a solution.

"All we need now is an agreement on a broad outline on reductions in the deficit," said Zandi. "The election is the referendum on how to achieve that goal."

With 17 months still to go, that election has already begun. The reinvigorated Obama is up there championing pensioners against the jet set; his Tea Party haters are calling for greater responsibility and an end to Obama's "socialism". By the time summer hits its height, the consequences of this spat could be felt around the world.
Mr. Brian, I find that offensive.

Scouser's inability to se others' point of view is rather grating.
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Postby Ivan » Mon Jul 04, 2011 6:11 pm

Scouser wrote:Not so long ago...

...By the time summer hits its height, the consequences of this spat could be felt around the world.


I blame the so-called "Founding Fathers". We wouldn't be in this mess if the US was still under British rule.
Last edited by Ivan on Mon Jul 04, 2011 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby black francis » Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:37 am

I used to worry that the US was a pussy hair away from being a province of China but once Governor Awesome (aka Chris Christie) is elected President, all will be well.

Ivan and myself don't agree on much but our mutual man crush on Governor Awesome unites us.
With the Force as his ally he did battle with the Dark Lord. And he showed the measure of a true Jedi at a place called "The Death Star" where hope for the Galaxy was reborn. May all who struggle against tyranny hold his memory in their hearts
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Postby JackT » Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:40 am

black francis wrote:I used to worry that the US was a pussy hair away from being a province of China but once Governor Awesome (aka Chris Christie) is elected President, all will be well.

Ivan and myself don't agree on much but our mutual man crush on Governor Awesome unites us.


There's no way Ivan likes Chris Christie.
"He was a mongoose, rather like a little cat in his fur and his tail, but quite like a weasel in his head and his habits."
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Postby black francis » Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:46 am

Let the man answer for himself Jack*



*There's no way Ivan likes Chris Christie
With the Force as his ally he did battle with the Dark Lord. And he showed the measure of a true Jedi at a place called "The Death Star" where hope for the Galaxy was reborn. May all who struggle against tyranny hold his memory in their hearts
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Postby Voodoo Billy » Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:49 am

black francis wrote:Let the man answer for himself Jack*



*There's no way Ivan likes Chris Christie


My fucking eyesight's going.
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Postby black francis » Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:51 am

Apologies Billy. I will never use the tiny setting again.
With the Force as his ally he did battle with the Dark Lord. And he showed the measure of a true Jedi at a place called "The Death Star" where hope for the Galaxy was reborn. May all who struggle against tyranny hold his memory in their hearts
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Postby Voodoo Billy » Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:22 pm

black francis wrote:Apologies Billy. I will never use the tiny setting again.


THANK YOU
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Postby girlwithnoname » Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:51 pm

Regarding BROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOS:

I've always hated that song "Born in the USA," as I wasn't (Bangkok) but still am a US citizen by birth. That's right--I can run for President. Suck it, stupid birthers.
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Postby Ivan » Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:08 pm

black francis wrote:pussy hair.


thank you. that is all.
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