Is Obama the next US president?

[Mr. Brian]

To call that as a "flip-flop", you have to:

a)classify what we are doing in Iraq as "nation building". That is at least debatable.

b)ignore Sept. 11

Lots of people changed their minds about lots of things between Sept. 10, 2001 and Sept 11, 2001. You can agree or disagree with the perceptions they had before or after, or the conclusions that they drew, but calling it a "flip flop" would be innaccurate.

Taking down a dictator and bringing "democracy" to a nation that had no proven part in the September 11th attacks is not nation building by our military?

I guess when it's your party or your man changing his mind it's not flip-flopping only when it's the other guy.

[Frank The Bunny]

Lots of people changed their minds about lots of things between Sept. 10, 2001 and Sept 11, 2001.

I changed my mind between Sept. 10 and Sept. 11...
then changed my mind again when I found I was being lied to by my government.

I don't consider myself as having flip-flopped.

I consider myself as having been duped by the worst case of calculated deceit - opportunistic political bullshit and moneygrubbing - that this nation has ever seen.

George W. Bush, Dick Cheney & Carl Rove should burn in hell... or at least face trial.

[Mr. Brian]

George W. Bush, Dick Cheney & Carl Rove should burn in hell... or at least face trial.

Nope sorry, that only happens when you are a compulsive adulterer and end up lying about sex to a grand jury because a group of folks are hell bent on getting you on something at the expense of millions of dollars of tax money for the investigation/political witch hunt.

[JackT]

Taking down a dictator and bringing "democracy" to a nation that had no proven part in the September 11th attacks is not nation building by our military?

I guess when it's your party or your man changing his mind it's not flip-flopping only when it's the other guy.

Oh come on I never said it was "my guy." I think I try to be objective about these things. The time to do something about the Sept. 11 attacks was BEFORE Sept. 11, right? Weren't we all asking why we didn't do that? I think Iraq, and Afghanistan for that matter, are supposed to about the next Sept. 11. Whether or not it is effective in that regard can be debated.

If GWB said "no nation building", but then the polls showed 65% of the electorate was in favor of nation building, so then GWB subsequently came out in favor of nation-building, THAT would be a "flip flop."

I'm sure there are legitimate flip-flops you can catch W on, I'm just saying comparing foreign policy pronouncements made before and after Sept. 11 is not a valid "gotcha."

[JackT]

Nope sorry, that only happens when you are a compulsive adulterer and end up lying about sex to a grand jury because a group of folks are hell bent on getting you on something at the expense of millions of dollars of tax money for the investigation/political witch hunt.

"end up lying." What does that mean?

[JackT]

I changed my mind between Sept. 10 and Sept. 11...
then changed my mind again when I found I was being lied to by my government.

I don't consider myself as having flip-flopped.

I consider myself as having been duped by the worst case of calculated deceit - opportunistic political bullshit and moneygrubbing - that this nation has ever seen.

George W. Bush, Dick Cheney & Carl Rove should burn in hell... or at least face trial.

I know I will regret asking this, but what were you lied to about?

[Frank The Bunny]

I know I will regret asking this, but what were you lied to about?

What made me buy into going into Iraq?
When Colin Powel sat in front of the UN, selling the Bush Administration's WMD case to the world:

- That little vial of "anthrax" he held as he talked about foreigners wishing to do us harm.
-The satellite images of "mobile weapons labs"

I was scared shitless, and bought it all - hook, line and sinker.

Colin Powell calls it a blot on his record: "I'm the one who presented it to the world, and (it) will always be a part of my record. It was painful. It is painful now."

[JackT]

So you're saying Powell was lying?

[withahip]

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... d=93293353

Well, Obama just waffled on off short drilling, and a wiffle waffle at that. Waffled on troops. Looks like we get to vote for one platform regardless.

[Mr. Brian]

"Jerry, just remember, it's not a lie if you believe it."
- George Costanza

[Frank The Bunny]

So you're saying Powell was lying?

Colin Powell didn't know the "facts" he was presenting were lies.

The Bush Administration cherry-picked bad information from bad sources to get us into a bad war.

[JackT]

Colin Powell didn't know the "facts" he was presenting were lies.

The Bush Administration cherry-picked bad information from bad sources to get us into a bad war.

Ahh, the old "everyone in the whole world got their info from George Bush" theory. It's the only way to hold onto the notion he was "lying" when it is a fact that the entire world believed what he believed.

Were the Senate and House lying when they passed the Iraq Liberation Act?

[Frank The Bunny]

Ahh, the old "everyone in the whole world got their info from George Bush" theory.

Actually, that's not it at all.
George Bush is a fucking idiot.
Dick Cheney & Karl Rove - not idiots.

[JackT]

Actually, that's not it at all.
George Bush is a fucking idiot.
Dick Cheney & Karl Rove - not idiots.

You didn't answer the question.

[Frank The Bunny]

You didn't answer the question.

The two are not inter-related

In 1998, Iraq had WMD.
Where's the evidence they still had them in 2003?
Any "evidence" in 2003 was manufactured.

Colin Powell now says it was a lie
Scott McClelland - the Administration's own mouthpiece - now says it was a lie.