An old new fan's perspective.

[T]

I'm someone who Liked EATB in the late 80's and early 90's. (I came to 'em late. Was too young to enjoy them in their heyday). Followed Mac's solo career with interest. (I loved his solo albums) and I was in my late teens when they (Candleland, Mysterio) came out. Lost interest from 93 till a year ago.
Since then been catching up.

I think Mac is a great and very underrated songwriter. (Just heard 'The fountain', 'Think I need it too', 'History chimes' etc for the first time).

But i think his gob gets in the way of this.

EATB are a recognizable brand name. And For whatever reason, unlike say Paul Weller, or david Sylvian, Mac has never managed to assert himself as a viable solo artist beyond the band he was first known for.

He has to make a living and in the music Biz these days that's 'easiest' done by playing live and trading on past glories.

Thus the mutant version of the Bunnymen.

But i think he resents Will for having to do this. He doesn't accept that their chemistry was what made the band unique.

I think if Will left, Mac would still tour as the Bunnymen.

I also think his voice is fucked and all the 'Im singing better than ever' malarky in recent interviews is him trying to convince himself otherwise.

he chose getting loaded over being a family man or whatever because it satisfies his ego quicker.

That said, I think he was potentially great and part of me loves hearing the struggle in his once great voice.

I just wonder where it will end up[...

[dodojojo]

Think the 2nd worst thing to happen to the Bunnymen was McCulloch's solo career flopping. The first was of course his departure in 1988.* But had his solo career worked out, he would be like Sting or Morrissey, focusing almost or entirely on being a solo artist. Two birds with one stone--good solo career and leaving the Bunnymen encased in solid gold memory. Though I guess, it would have been bad for Will--financially. But oh well, being a Bunnymen fan seems to involve a lot of shoulda, coulda, woulda scenarios. In terms of music, I don't think post-reformation Bunnymen and alternative universe solo McCulloch would have been that different anyway since in either scenario Mac is the driver. Maybe a bit more crooning for the latter.

T, not surprising you and I share a love of Candleland-era McCulloch. I was a young teen when the Grey Album came out and like most Americans, my intro to the Bunnymen was Lips Like Sugar. I wish I was much cooler and cited Heaven Up Here or Porcupine, but I can't help when I was born and in terms of music fandom, I was a bit of a late bloomer. But having only known the Bunnymen for less than a year before Mac left, I guess it made the transition to his solo career easier. I didn't have the hardcore ties to the early Bunnymen. Grey Album/Candleland isn't better than prime Bunnymen, but that time period is how I see and hear Ian McCulloch. That's my imprint for him and the Bunnymen. Which is why I harp on his speaking voice so much--it's so freaking different from that time.

But since we don't have the alternative universe option--what else to do? I don't agree with everything Mac says or do, but...*shrug*. I support the Bunnymen where I can. If I don't really like something, I don't buy it. It's not like he was going to segue way into being an accountant or car salesman. There are worse things in life than being a life-long professional musician. And let's be fair, how many bands remain relevant for 4 decades? The usual is a brief prime period and then if you're lucky enough, you get to live off that glory period for as long as you can. Would any of us do it any differently? If you were paid the same amount of money singing TKM and The Cutter, would you opt to sit at a desk working on spreadsheets instead?

*Not including Pete's death...that was was awful beyond merely being bad for a band.

[username]

when mac left will continued and they were shit...

[billythekid]

when mac left will continued and they were shit...

Mac wasn’t exactly great solo either! Yes, the odd good song, but not the success I imagine his ego expected.

[fat cherry]

And For whatever reason, unlike say Paul Weller, or David Sylvian, Mac has never managed to assert himself as a viable solo artist beyond the band he was first known for.
[...

Well Weller had fronted two bands that were, in their time, much bigger than the bunnymen have ever been. Can't speak for Sylvo, always thought Japan were shite and never took much notice of them (despite, or maybe because of Mrs FC (80s lieup) trying to convert me) - but some people seem to flourish in that artsy niche he seems to be in. And Weller's career has been up and down all over the place, when he finally went solo I believe he just hit the road didn't he? But anyways, having a fairly massive fan base to begin with he was in a better position than Mac. I still think Mac's gob has done him no favours in the end since in the big picture he hasn't delivered anything on the 'best band/best song front as far as the rest of the world outside this forum and their FB page. And just so's you know, don't rate MAc's solo stuff much, and The Jam are still better than anything Weller's done since. Locked in a time warp? Yep. I think I'm repeating myself you know - growth eh? Still, never stopped me gobbing off before has it now.

[T]

Were the Bunnymen not as big as the Jam..?

Anyway, as I say, from the perspective of someone who went into a coma for 20 years as far as EATB etc went....

They and Mac in particular just seem knackered now. Yet still with the occasional hint that he/they may do something immortal again...

One thing I reckon- When Mac played guitar live it both kinda grounded him and connected him to Will in some way....something was lost when he stopped bothering playing....

When was the last time he played guitar Live BTW?

[fat cherry]

Were the Bunnymen not as big as the Jam..?

Not in the UK I'd say. jam - String of hit (top 40) singles including some numero unos, plus reissues and imports that charted. Never bothered the US charts much I think. Then weller ousted the other two and had a few more with the style council. So when he returned with kind of grown up Jam (well deffo 60s influenced) he picked up quite alot of old Jam fans he'd lost with the stylistics. Though bit of a curates egg as far as I was concerned. There's one single - fairly recent - with Foxton on bass which is great (or am I just imagining that) Wikipedia will fill you in, Buns highest is about 9 isn't it?

Anyway, as I say, from the perspective of someone who went into a coma for 20 years as far as EATB etc went....

Noted.

One thing I reckon- When Mac played guitar live it both kinda grounded him and connected him to Will in some way....something was lost when he stopped bothering playing....

Been said many a time around these parts.

When was the last time he played guitar Live BTW?

With buns? Not much since reformation I think. Still does solo, but mainly acoustic. Last time I saw him solo was over ten years ago and he was being a pain in the arse - stopping and starting songs, whining about the lights etc but right at the end they all stood up and started grooving (waiting for the man I think) and for about five minutes it was fantastic.

Chez

[billythekid]

He dabbled a bit on guitar on a tour about 3 years ago, when I say a bit about 30 - 40 seconds if I remember correctly. Think only lasted for a few shows though not the full tour.

[allthatjazz]

I'm someone who Liked EATB in the late 80's and early 90's. (I came to 'em late. Was too young to enjoy them in their heyday). Followed Mac's solo career with interest. (I loved his solo albums) and I was in my late teens when they (Candleland, Mysterio) came out. Lost interest from 93 till a year ago.
Since then been catching up.

I think Mac is a great and very underrated songwriter. (Just heard 'The fountain', 'Think I need it too', 'History chimes' etc for the first time).

But i think his gob gets in the way of this.

EATB are a recognizable brand name. And For whatever reason, unlike say Paul Weller, or david Sylvian, Mac has never managed to assert himself as a viable solo artist beyond the band he was first known for.

He has to make a living and in the music Biz these days that's 'easiest' done by playing live and trading on past glories.

Thus the mutant version of the Bunnymen.

But i think he resents Will for having to do this. He doesn't accept that their chemistry was what made the band unique.

I think if Will left, Mac would still tour as the Bunnymen.

I also think his voice is fucked and all the 'Im singing better than ever' malarky in recent interviews is him trying to convince himself otherwise.

he chose getting loaded over being a family man or whatever because it satisfies his ego quicker.

That said, I think he was potentially great and part of me loves hearing the struggle in his once great voice.

I just wonder where it will end up[...

I vacillate between thinking similarly and thinking it's a miracle they're still in existence....If not for some people like Pete de Freitas [early on], Will Sergeant [throughout his career] and Peasy [since taking over as manager] who've held it together like glue and who made sure to set their pride aside for the band's greater good, they might have broken apart for good...They deserve more recognition. Mac's songwriting, Will's guitar play and the brilliance of those first five albums not to mention Evergreen, Siberia, WAYGTDWYL, Flowers, The Fountain...Meterorites...And, now these transformed classics...No idea why they aren't more highly regarded...And, I agree with the above comments on Weller...Mac's been changing his tune lately...He was praising the Stones on a recent interview and also talked back some criticism of U2 on another...It doesn't help when you need to rely on people in the industry for support. I hear them mentioned as an influence by so many bands. That's an honor in and of itself!

[billythekid]

Agree about Mac’s gob, think it has definitely been a huge problem for them over the years, what he says and he doesn’t know when to shut up. Seems to do a lot of rambling on now too, so you forget what he’s supposed to be saying anyway!
Said this before, while I agree there are people around who seem to keep things together and ticking over, think too many just say yes to whatever Mac wants, probably to keep him happy and make their lives easier in the process. His ego has always been a problem and if nobody challenges him it can only get worse! Would hope BMG will stand up to him as and when required. Think what was said about when he played guitar is true but if some of his solo shows are anything to go by don’t think he could do that now anyway. Seen him be great solo but also seen him be so shambolic people were walking out.
Personally think his voice is still okay, but only okay, and sad in comparison to what it was, age and lifestyle have taken their toll, beginning to look his almost 60 years now too. One of the photos I’ve seen this week looked like an homage to Doddy! Think it was taken for Absolute 80’s. Would’ve been interesting to see the old fashioned chart placing, without all these bundles, sadly think after this week will be very lucky if they’re still in it.
Thought they were okay on Later, band are tight now but his voice was pretty weak, okay he’s had a cold but that seems a regular occurrence, and surely all this forever touring must eventually take it’s toll too.

[bunnygod1]

He dabbled a bit on guitar on a tour about 3 years ago, when I say a bit about 30 - 40 seconds if I remember correctly. Think only lasted for a few shows though not the full tour.

I definitely saw him playing it at Oxford in 2016, but like you said not for long.