How Does It Feel --- Demo Version?

[Grumpy_Jimbo]

Johnny Marr is more into the collaborative process. Musicians sitting around, playing and singing, until the song is fleshed out. Then they press "record". If there's nobody there to collaborate with, nothing is recorded.

Wrong........

When Marr was in The Smiths he simply wrote the music give the tune to Morrisey who then wrote the lyrics to the tune...... Very little collaboration there !!

When they came to record the tracks according to the infamous Court Case Marr claimed he more or less told Joyce and Rourke what to play, they denied that hence court case. I do concede that Joyce won his case but that was purely on Royalties, Marr still denies the actual level of collaboration.

Jimbo

[moondance]

I'm sure I've read an interview with Les where, around the time of WAYGTDWYL, he said Mac was busy inventing the past with regards to how they write songs i.e. Mac's version was that he always turned up with songs and the rest of them just fleshed them out.

I've read Mac interviews that state the same thing.

[Dr Cheese]

Well Mac would say that wouldn't he, Les's point was that they always wrote the songs together and didn't just doss about waiting for Mac to deliver the tunes from on high like he now claims is what happened.

[Frank The Bunny]

Wrong........

When Marr was in The Smiths he simply wrote the music give the tune to Morrisey who then wrote the lyrics to the tune...... Very little collaboration there !!

When they came to record the tracks according to the infamous Court Case Marr claimed he more or less told Joyce and Rourke what to play, they denied that hence court case. I do concede that Joyce won his case but that was purely on Royalties, Marr still denies the actual level of collaboration.

Jimbo

I'm more referring to Marr's post-Smiths production, working with The The, Modest Mouse, etc. The Smiths were internally just as sick as the Bunnymen, if not moreso.

But perhaps therein lies the problem: two egos, each wanting it his own way, with not much middleground.

I still don't think any recorded product existed.

[black francis]

In Chris Adam's book he says it probably went down cause Marr got pissed that Will was gonna be brought in to Mac/Marr collaborations and just refused to hand over the tapes. Mac did say they would be heard one day. I was pretty excited when I first heard the news of those two getting together. Mac having disappeared and Marr wasting his talents in the past their prime Pretenders, The The, Electronic and now Modest Mouse, I thought fuck there might be something here.

Of course Electrafixion made me not care about all that.

[moondance]

Whether you agree or not, I believe at some point Mac felt that he had the makings of a good songwriter in him and began to compose songs on his own. I have read interviews with Will stating that (I paraphrase here) that Mac writes the song and gives it to Will to add his "flourishes".
I know that the early recordings did have an amazing spontaiety. The latter songs post break-up seem to be more carefully crafted with amazing lyrics and melody.
I think it was a process of growing, and growing apart and growing into something else. I like them all!

[Dave Smith]

Wrong........

When Marr was in The Smiths he simply wrote the music give the tune to Morrisey who then wrote the lyrics to the tune...... Very little collaboration there !!

When they came to record the tracks according to the infamous Court Case Marr claimed he more or less told Joyce and Rourke what to play, they denied that hence court case. I do concede that Joyce won his case but that was purely on Royalties, Marr still denies the actual level of collaboration.

Jimbo

They paid Rourke £500k to settle out of court.(to fund his smack habit at the time).Rourke's bass playing was very important to the Smiths sound.Marr-great guitarist,big-headed cocky twat.

[watercolors]

Damn Musicians and their egos....


So which party put them on a courior van in the first place? (I am a little daft if this was brought out before)

[fat cherry]

[quote="Dave Smith"]They paid Rourke £500k to settle out of court.(to fund his smack habit at the time).Rourke's bass playing was very important to the Smiths sound.Marr-great guitarist,big-headed cocky twat.[/quote]

http://www.cemetrygates.com/vault/news/court.html

says its 80K to rourke

also didn't marr recently claim to have 'invented indie' haha.

[Dave Smith]

re Rourke-price of smack must have been cheaper than I thought.

re Marr-I recall him once saying that he didnt like the Sex Pistols because at the age of 13 he was playing augmented chords and they only played barre chords.Real 'indie' ethos that.Plus I never forgave him for throwing that fan off the stage when they played shoplifters/sheila on The Tube.

[fat cherry]

I know that the early recordings did have an amazing spontaiety. The latter songs post break-up seem to be more carefully crafted with amazing lyrics and melody.

well you never know do you really - how it came about that is. I hitnk its in adams's book, or I've heard it in interview that by ocean rain most of the songs were written before they went in the studio. Lyrically I think he's much better in spontaneous mode, though what do I know he may sweat and bother over stuff like 'love n veins love in veins love in veins' and knock off that appalling thing at the end of siberia. BUt give me c c c c cucumber and songs about porcupines any day of the week.

C

[moses (2)]

well you never know do you really - how it came about that is. I hitnk its in adams's book, or I've heard it in interview that by ocean rain most of the songs were written before they went in the studio. Lyrically I think he's much better in spontaneous mode, though what do I know he may sweat and bother over stuff like 'love n veins love in veins love in veins' and knock off that appalling thing at the end of siberia. BUt give me c c c c cucumber and songs about porcupines any day of the week.

C

sometimes I think song writers forget that it is the orginality of a song that does it -- and after the original idea they get a bit caught up on writing the perfect song -- I feel that some of the songs on Siberia are almost there but if they eased back on some of the arrangements, let the songs breathe and made them quirky musically based around the vocal melody then it would be 100 times better--

for example History Chimes would have been a much better song if it ended after the first chorus maybe with a lone paine note ringing out -- ended -- continueing it just made it an alright song whereas ending it would leave you wondering what might have been

[fat cherry]

-- I feel that some of the songs on Siberia are almost there ....

that, in a nutshell, is what I think is wrong with siberia.

for example History Chimes would have been a much better song if it ....

had been strangled at birth or at least left on a master tape in the back of a couriers van somewhere in liverpool.

C

[Dr Cheese]

sometimes I think song writers forget that it is the orginality of a song that does it -- and after the original idea they get a bit caught up on writing the perfect song

I have a sneaky suspicion that these days Mac is desperately trying to write the perfect radio friendly hit!

[fat cherry]

I have a sneaky suspicion that these days Mac is desperately trying to write the perfect radio friendly hit!

can just see him dueting with katie melua ...... there are 20 million bicycles for goodness sake.